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We die too, you die too
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We die too, you die too
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We die by selling cheap, you die by buying expensive
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This poem I just told you, was narrated by the farmer Sharad Joshi
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And there is a very deep truth behind it, which is related to the public policy
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The farmers of this country are not free to sell their crops at any price in the market
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They can only sell their crops to the APMC, which the government has given this monopoly
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And the buyers above can only buy their crops from them
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So let's assume that the farmer sells his crop for 100 rupees and the consumer buys it for 400 rupees
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The APMC, the middleman, the dealer eats the 300 rupees
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But if there was a free market, if there was competition, if the farmers had the freedom to sell their crops at any price
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If the middlemen had the freedom to buy from anyone, then there would be competition in the middle
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And the farmer would probably sell his crop for 200 rupees instead of 100 rupees
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And the consumer would probably buy his crop for 300 rupees instead of 400 rupees
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Which means that both of them would benefit from 100 rupees and the dealer would also get money in between
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But that is not the case, and that is why this poem by Sharad Joshi
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We die too, you die too
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We die by selling cheap, you die by buying expensive
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Welcome to the Seen and the Unseen, our weekly podcast on economics, politics and behavioral science
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Please welcome your host, Amit Verma
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Seen and the unseen, dekhi and dekhi, me aapka swaghat hai, me hu Amit Verma
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Sharad Joshi ji, who is no more, was probably the first farmer in India who went to the root of the farmers' problems
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And that root is the government
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The government does not give any kind of freedom to the farmer and does not let him get out of the cycle of indifference
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Mr. Joshi is no more, but a few days ago I got the opportunity to meet some of his friends in Deolali
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One of them is Gunvand Patil, who has been with Mr. Joshi for many years in the Sheetkari Sanghatna
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Please listen to our conversation
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Mr. Gunvand, welcome to the Seen and the Unseen
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Namaskar, I am Gunvand Patil
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Sir, you have been in politics for decades, you are an important leader of the Sheetkari Sanghatna
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Can you tell us about your personal history?
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Yes, I am an engineering graduate, I studied in Bangalore and when I came to my village, Nanded
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My family was completely involved in the Sheetkari Sanghatna, my father, my elder brother, Vishwanath Patil
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I used to come to the Sheetkari Sanghatna even before that, but I used to go to the meeting as the driver of my elder brother's car
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But I used to not work with a badge, I was not fully involved, I was recognized as a worker
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My brother is here, I am here, it is going on, something is going on in the Sanghatna
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But I became a bit serious in the 90s, I came here after working in Bangalore
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I started my lectures here in the engineering college and I was looking for something to do
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I was thinking about self-employment
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The Sheetkari Sanghatna movement was going on in Bangalore
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Reforms were taking place in the 90s, we used to listen to Manmohan Singh's speeches
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When all this was going on, the Sheetkari Sanghatna was taking its roots from the 80s
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And slowly I started to concentrate that the Sheetkari Sanghatna says something different
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Earlier we were in the college, in Bangalore
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Rajiv Gandhi is very good, he drives his own car
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He drove his own car on the M-Zero and saw it on the Indian Express
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We were in our childhood, we didn't understand politics
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We used to go towards glamour
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But later when I started thinking about the Sheetkari Sanghatna
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When I started listening to Congress and Nehru politics, I was very surprised
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I thought how is this possible
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We didn't call our uncle uncle, we called Nehru uncle
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How can that uncle be dangerous for us
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I was a farmer, I had 350 acres of land in my house
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I was a landlord's son, we were a joint family
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I was in Bangalore to study engineering
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But my father used to sell the least amount of money in the money order
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I thought my father was a miser, he sold the least amount of money
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And I used to fight every time that everyone gets more money and I get comparatively less
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The servants, the collector's son, they used to get more money orders
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And we used to get very less
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I used to think that I have 350 acres of land and I am a landlord's son
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I should get a lot of money
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So when we used to go to the village during the holidays
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My father used to insult us when we used to live in Chauri
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If you don't study, I will keep you on animals
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We used to say that we won't study, we keep you on agriculture
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Why do you keep them to take care of animals
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They didn't want their children to do agriculture
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So we used to say, why do you keep them on animals
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Why do you want to make fodder to take care of animals
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They used to say that you can live by adding water to milk
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But will you live in Chauri by adding stones
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And this is a loss and you don't want to come here
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So you have to do something different
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That was the knowledge of Sharad Joshi
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Agriculture is a loss and he is doing it on purpose
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He doesn't use technology or education
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Because of the farmer's fate
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That's why he is doing it on purpose
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The constitution says that agriculture is a loss
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Because one seed doesn't make a profit
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If you add one seed, you get thousands of seeds
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So how can there be a loss
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I am a mechanical engineer
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If you give me 1 kg of iron
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I can't make 100 kg of iron
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If you give me 1 kg of iron to design a bearing
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Because it will go away in friction, in mowing, in beating
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But if you give one seed to the farmer
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He can make thousands of seeds
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Where there is crime, where there is multiplication
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How can there be a loss
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When we are thinking about this
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The government's policy is like this
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And it has been kept on purpose
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After listening to this, I got angry
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And we stopped calling Nehru uncle
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And we started reading about this Congress policy
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We started listening to different speeches of Sharad Joshi
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Schedule 9, which contains 287 laws
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If 287 laws are against the farmer
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Then what is the farmer doing
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I thought that 287 laws are against my father
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They are against the farmer
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Then I will go to court
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Because Article 31B supports it
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That you can't go to court
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Understand that in Schedule 9
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It is written that license to kill to somebody
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If someone is given a license
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Even if he kills someone
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You can't appeal to him
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Because that law is written in Schedule 9
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Then we went to Sharad Joshi for agitations
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After listening to his different speeches
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We felt that even though we are the sons of the landlord
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We couldn't understand all this
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We started calling our father miserly
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But this business of farming
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If the father does the rest of the farming
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So I want to ask you about Sharad Joshi
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Whatever we have heard about Sharad Joshi
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It is obvious that he was very different
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From the former leaders who came
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Because he was very deep
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He used to analyze agriculture
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He used to understand it
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Why farmers are poor in agriculture
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His answers were different from others
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He didn't think that the government will fix everything
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He believed that the government has created all the problems
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So you can elaborate on this
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When Sharad Joshi came to India from Switzerland
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First tell me about him for my listeners
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Later he came to Bombay
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He used to study in Bombay
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He joined Indian Postal Services
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Later he went to Switzerland
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He joined Foreign Services
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He also did a diploma in Informatics
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At that time he was very famous
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Brilliant means very brilliant
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Because we have seen a lot of IAS
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Every collector is an IAS
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We have never been impressed by any collector or secretary
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My father is also an IAS
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So we have never been impressed
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Sharad Joshi was very intelligent
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He said that he was not attracted
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Sharad Joshi thinks like us
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That is why he was attracted
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Because he used to do analysis near farmers
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He couldn't see farmers
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He couldn't see the farmer's son
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What Sharad Joshi saw was that there were no farmers
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Before coming from Switzerland, there were no farmers
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He came here and took land without water
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Which is called Kauravahu land in Marathi
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When you do harvesting or farming
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What will be the output of that?
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For this, for practical
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To understand something
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It is necessary to go in that
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Like there is a saying in Marathi
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Jaave Tacha Vohu Shatava Kale
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Until you become a fish
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How does it sleep? How does it wake up?
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He tried to become a farmer first
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After becoming a farmer
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He did different experiments
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There was a protest in Chakan
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He found out how much land he bought
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After finding out all this
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To run the name of the father
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The farmers came to understand this first
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That the amount of money he has put
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But the other farmers say that
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There is a lot of land benefit
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When he started going near the farmer
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By calling him a personal farmer
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When he started roaming with him
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The farmer will start saying
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No, what you say is right
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Our credit will not remain in the market
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No one will marry our daughter
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So we say that a lot of crops come
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There are a lot of crops
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They keep talking like this
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But in reality this does not happen
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Then he started a protest
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First protest in Chakan
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What was the first issue?
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The village started the road protest
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And the first limelight
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The protest was of Piya Pach
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To get the feeling of Pach
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He started the first protest
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It was highlighted in the 80s
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The protest of Piya Pach
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The protest system was used
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Or tried to bring a revolution in India
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Piya Pach is such a thing
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That it is more in the Nasik area
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The farmer can control it
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Then the government is also troubled
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The government can fall
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Such was the magic in Piya Pach
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The government has fallen
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This type of Piya Pach does not come
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So if they all together decide
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If that type of protest happens
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Then the government's attention
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If they all together do it
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Then the price of Piya Pach will go up
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And the government can fall
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If we have a shortage of Piya Pach
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And farmers have stopped it
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Then some will come from Andhra Pradesh
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The price of Piya Pach was so low
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Sharad Joshi himself said
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That he had advertised in Pune
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He did not have the labor
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Why did the Piya Pach market go bad?
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Now Sharad Joshi's strategy
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Does not solve any problem
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The government itself is a problem
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The government never solves a problem
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The government itself is a problem
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Does not do anything for us
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It just sits on our back
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This was his vision statement
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And it was a confident statement
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That the government should be minimum
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Whatever the minimum is
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Like the Ministry of Home
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The government has that much work
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The government does not run railways
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The government does not run
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Sharad Joshi used to say
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That the government has created all the problems in agriculture
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What are the different problems
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Until the price was controlled
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The country should be industrial
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The whole industries should be built
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If the industries should be built
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That comes from agriculture
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Then the problem will be solved
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To get the inputs cheaper
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The farmers had to pay less
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Have the right to plant sugarcane
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Have the right to sell sugarcane
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Have the right to sell sugarcane
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If I am making a product
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If I cannot control its price
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If I cannot decide its price
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Then why should I take out gold
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He does not directly sell to the customer
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He sells to the government
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That the market committee
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You have to go to the market committee
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You cannot sell it from home
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If you are selling to someone
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You have to take it to the market
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You cannot sell it in the open market
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That is why the price is controlled
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No matter how much my production cost is
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Or the Maharashtra government
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So if the production cost
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The agricultural universities
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That the state government
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Recommended to the central government
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That this is the production cost
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At least this is what the farmer should get
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Then what was the price of the central government
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4,100 rupees was the price
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Approximately 7,000 rupees
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So he is getting 4,000 rupees
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Meaning the father's name
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Even today it is correct
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What is the international capacity
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The international capacity is
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Approximately 7,000 rupees
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Means from the international market
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We are getting 4,000 rupees less
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From the production cost
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We are getting 3,000 rupees less
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If this is the calculation
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Then we will extract anything
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Whichever crop we plant
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We will get a loan from it
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Supposing you sold some 100 rupees
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How much does the government
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No, no, the government does not sell
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Or what is needed for BDS
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But the middlemen who buy from you
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Our fight is not even with middlemen
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The businessmen are not our opponents
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If there was an open market
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We would not be selling in the market
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We sell to the businessmen
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But with the government intervention
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The businessmen take advantage of it
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The businessmen are not our enemies
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We would go in the open
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The businessmen would come to our house and buy
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But then there would be competition in the businessmen
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And we would get a good price from them
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Exactly, there would be competition
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The businessmen do not rob us
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We have never said that the businessmen rob us
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If the businessmen do not use these two things
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They become government agents
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They take advantage of being agents
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Because they are businessmen
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They will try to take something
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But if they are kept in the open market
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They will also become competent
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And there is no question of robbing us
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We will get a good price
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Anything has to be kept in competition
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The best thing is competition
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No one's monopoly will work
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If the competition is fair
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And it happens in the open market
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It happens automatically
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Which they call invisible hands
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So if we use that knowledge
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The open economy is very easy
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A dog is raping someone
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It does not happen like that
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It is a systematic plan
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But the fear that we will come to the jungle
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What is the government's job
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When someone takes an objection
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I want to illustrate for my listeners
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If you sell something for 100 rupees
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How much do you have to pay the customer
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No, no, every time it is different
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I will explain in a different way
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What happens in America
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If you make something for 100 rupees
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The American government
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They try for that or give subsidy
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The government that helps
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The government that loots
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We call it negative subsidy
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In the language of Shara Joshi
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We did not sell any agricultural produce
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Instead of its benefits
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Then it is the opposite
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Like they said negative subsidy
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Is understood in other ways
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Like in the international market
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100 rupees is something
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How much do Indian farmers get
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28 rupees from the international market
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In the international market
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So Indian farmers do not have subsidy
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This is not the kind of agriculture
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Ministry of commerce has written
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So basically if you sell 100 rupees
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400 rupees internationally
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100 rupees is given 135 rupees
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100 rupees is given 165 rupees
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100 rupees is given 60 rupees
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100 rupees is given 28 rupees
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If you think I am wrong
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Who is the richest farmer
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Who is the richest farmer in Maharashtra
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Who is the richest farmer in Nanded
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Amitabh Bachchan richest farmer
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The one who sells shoes
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If he does pure farming
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He is not in government job
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Then how will he come up
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Because the one who makes
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He doesn't have the authority
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Then his business can't be profitable
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The value of agriculture
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Then you will automatically become rich
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Bhik na ko have ghamache da
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Sood subsidy che nahi ka
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Sood subsidy hame ko nahi chahiye
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Hame pasina ka daam chahiye
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Hame jo pasina dala hai
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Khet mein uska daam chahiye
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Hame kuch subsidy bhi nahi chahiye
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Kuch sood bhi nahi chahiye
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Khat ke upar, bisli ke upar, pani ke upar
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Hama ra agar dhanda faide ka ho jaaye
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Hama automatically bajar mein jaayenge
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Baki farmer leaders kya bolte hain
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Hame minimum support price chahiye
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Hame government se loan waiver chahiye
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Hame minimum support price
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Jab sarkar baat karte thi toh bolte hain
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Hame minimum support price bhi nahi chahiye
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Hame open market ka price chahiye
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Open market mein jo milega
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Economics ko samajhne ki koshish ki jaye
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Samjho mai ganna laga thaam
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Agar poora open hoga hai
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Sugar agar bhot sasti miltiye
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Aur Brazil se sugar India aatiye
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Toh yaha ka sugar ka market gire jaayega
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Ganna ka bhaav bhi gire jaayega
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Agar ek khula hai, do bhi sarkare
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Toh hum ganna nahi lagaayenge
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Kuch aur lagaayenge, kuch aur lagaayenge
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Kuch aur lagaayenge, jisme hum compete kar saktein
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World mein, hum apni apni fesal
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Doon leenge, jo humare faide waliye
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Toh usme kya ho jaayega
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Jiski original fesal hai, jaise kapas
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Humare original fesal hai
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America se bhi compete kar saktein
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China se bhi compete kar saktein
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Kapas mein hum competitive ban saktein
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Toh agar kapas ko open kiya jaaye
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Humare export, humare industrial
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Safet Sona ho sakta hai
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Safet Sona humare sapna hai
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Safet kabhi peela nahi hua hai
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Because government market
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Actually, agar open market
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Open market ko bhi samajhne ki koshish kijiye
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Open market hota kya hai
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Chota kisan kaise jaayega
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Jaise samajwadi bolte rahete
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Bajar mein jaane ki zarurat nahi rahete
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MCX mein, open market mein
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Commodity market agar open
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Market ke upar, bazar ke upar
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Chor diya jaaye, government intervention na kare
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Humko future ka bhi usne price mil sakta hai
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Jo world mein price chal raha hai
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Automatically mil sakta hai
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Kuch natural calamity a gayi
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Kuch barish jada ho gayi
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Wahan ki fasal kharab ho gayi
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Chin mein kuch bad a gayi
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Fasal mein changes hua toh
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World market mein changes hua
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Price ka kam jada hota hai
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Toh government intervention
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Aapka jo pointer mujhe summarize karne dijiye
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Toh aap fir boliye ki maine theek summarize kiya
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Government market nahi allow karta hai
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Aapko government ke price pe hi
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Aapka fasal APMC mein bechna hai
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Ab isse kya hota hai ki
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Farmer ko iske liye low price milta hai
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Lekin wo rahe nahi dijiye
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Farmer ke paas right nahi hai ki aap price set kare
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Toh unko ek low price milta hai
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Consumer ke paas kabhi-kabhi wo
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High price pe bikta hai
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100 rupee ka agar apne APMC mein becha toh
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300-400 ka consumer ke paas jaa skta hai
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Abhi agar open market hota
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Ye composition nahi hota toh middle
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Mein mein competition hota
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Farmer ko bhi aacha price milta
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Consumer bhi come price pe kharid leta
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Toh 100-400 ka jo suffer hai wo nahi hota
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200 mil jata aur consumer 300 mein kharid leta
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Aur dono ka faida hota hai
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Toh isme dono ka ghaata hua hai
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Consumer ka bhi ghaata hua hai
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Kisan ka bhi ghaata hua hai
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Aur ye government intervention ke karan hua hai
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Milkul hua hai, aur dsra kya hua hai ki
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PDS ke naam pe, gharibon ke naam pe
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Sarkar ne humko levy lagaya
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Kam keemat mein khalida humse
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Usme toh pura corruption hua
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Gharibon ko toh mila hi nahi
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Jo mila toh bahut kam mila
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Rajkaran chalta tha, politics chalta tha
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Uske karan pura waste hua
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Jaise Raju Gandhi bolte the hai
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Ek rupee humne bhejaya upar se
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Toh yahan 20 paisa bhi nahi milte niche
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Aur dono ne khut bola chata ho
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Jab wo khut Prime Minister the, tab bola tha
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Paat mein Monteng Singh Anowalia
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Ek rupee bhejna chata hai niche
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56 rupiah kharcha karna padta hai
#
Matlab itna pipeline in ka leakage hai
#
Ek rupee bhejna ke liye 56 rupiah pipe me daalna padta hai
#
Toh 1 rupiah waha pahasta hai
#
Ye leakage system bahut humko kya kaya nahi
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Sarkar yahan se hak jaye
#
Gharibon ke baare mein soch nahi
#
Gharibon ko coupon de do na
#
Gharibon ko 3,000 ka anaj lagta hai
#
3,000 ka coupon de diye
#
Lekin PDS ke through aap kharide mat
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Humara agriculture photo se usko
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Girao mat, uske baav mat girao
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Aap Gharibon ko coupon de jiye
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Food watchers de jaye open market me
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Khali food kharide sakta hai usse
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Food kharide le, open market ke price me kharide
#
Open market me jitna lagta hai
#
Gharibon ko coupon de dena
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To koi leakage nahi hoga
#
Aur baav me jo distortion
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Hota hai market me wo nahi hoga
#
Aur aur point aapne kiya mai summarize karna chata hai
#
Ki aapne kaha ki jaba market signals
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Uska problem ye hota hai ki market se
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Information kisan ke paas
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Nahi jata hai, to for example agar
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Fussel kharidna bant kardiya
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Uska demand kamo gaya, wo information
#
Kisan ke paas nahi jata hai, aur agar wo uske paas
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Jata ki iska bhaav itna achha nahi hai
#
To wo kisi aur fussel me shift kar leta
#
Melkul, ne ne kaisa hota hai ki
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Kisan bahot rusa raha hai
#
Taiwan me papaya ban rahi thi
#
Aur bahot wahan ka agar
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Seer ye aaya jaya, to bahot jaza
#
Production hota hai, aur usme
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Thoda jo virus ho kar aata hai, to shaheb
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Naya papaya me nahi tha, isa kuch
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Bayan tha wahan se beej laane ke liye
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Lekin chukke se kahan se beej aaya
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Patane, lekin kisan ne lagaaya
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Papaya ko excess production me dal diya
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Agar wo faideh kaya usko
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To dhun ke laata hai, kahin se
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Usko koi fikar nahi rehti
#
Information bhi uske paas
#
Automatic aaya jata hai
#
Lekin agar usko kola, abhi mobile
#
Smartphone tak, kisanon ko
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Sarkar ne school leke padaya hai
#
School, raat ki school laga ke
#
Padane ki kustiske, kuch nahi padhe
#
Lekin jab mobile aaya, wo need bani
#
Aur technology uske haath me aayi
#
To usko padane ke liye koi gaya ke
#
Automatic sheekh jata hai, this is natural law
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Kisan ko kuch samaj me nahi aata
#
Agar isko kola kar de jaa jaa hai
#
Vyapari khud jaa ke uske paas bolenge
#
Yeh nahi aaya hai, yeh kharid
#
Open economy me yeh sab hota hai
#
Samjaya jata hai, uska marketing hota hai
#
Aur ek insight jo maine parha hai unse yeh hain
#
Sirf yeh aapne aapne aapne output ki baat ki
#
Output state controlled hai, markets nahi hai
#
Lagana chante hain, wo bhi nahi hain
#
Input me toh bhot hain, matlab technology
#
Hamaare liye ban hain, kisanon
#
For us, technology is banned. I have seen the Philippines, I have seen the USP, I have seen all the places.
#
What do you mean by banned?
#
For example, in biotechnology, there has been a new genetic modification.
#
In 2025, if the world population is seen, it is going to be so much that we will not be able to compete in that way.
#
At present, we are going back to the world, except for cotton.
#
There have been so many inventions in biotechnology. Scientists and engineering have revolutionized agriculture in foreign countries.
#
There have been two inventions in our country as well. For example, Dr. Pentel has invented mustard in Delhi.
#
Brinjal has invented Mahiko in Jalna.
#
Jalna's genetic modified brinjal has arrived. Bangladesh is using Jalna's brinjal. But we, the Indians, cannot use it.
#
The government says that they will test it. Okay, test it, try it. We tell them to try it.
#
After trying it, they don't even let us try it. They don't even let us test it.
#
Technology doesn't let us come to us. How will we go to the international market? How will we compete with international farmers?
#
Can you tell us the story of the B.T. cotton protest in your history?
#
Yes, in the B.T. cotton protest, I am an evidence. In 1998, in Andhra Pradesh, when Andhra Pradesh was complete,
#
there were many suicides in the Vijayawada area. And Mr. Srinath Dushini had sent me there.
#
So why did the cotton farmers commit suicides there? When there was no B.T. cotton here, but the cotton fields were very big.
#
In Marathwada, Vidarbha and Andhra Pradesh too.
#
There, the people of the Bijwadi community, who had travelled from Tamil Nadu to Andhra Pradesh, used to come and work with a farm on rent.
#
The landowners used to take it from them on rent. And they used to take out production costs, land rent etc.
#
And at that time, there was a variety like 944, the variety of H4. So on that variety, 5-5 sprays had to be done.
#
Pesticide. Yes, pesticide. There used to be a worm called American boar worm. And it used to eat the whole cotton.
#
And the farmers used to spray 5-5. The cost of spray used to increase, labor cost used to increase, pesticide cost used to increase.
#
And the production cost used to increase so much that the farmers started committing suicides.
#
In one village, 10-10 farmers committed suicides.
#
At that time, I also reported that this is happening because the production cost is increasing.
#
And there was not much in the market. Here, the Cotton Monopoly Act was in place. The government used to buy it on its own.
#
The international market was 4,500 rupees per quintal. And we used to get 1,500 rupees per quintal.
#
So the government used to loot us from 3,000 rupees per quintal. And at that time, suicides were happening.
#
At that time, we were seeing that some new crop would come that our inputs would be less.
#
At that time, we were told that there is a company called Navbarat in Gujarat.
#
They stole some seeds from China. And they invented it. And they planted crops there.
#
There was no bollworms in the B.T. cotton. American bollworms did not come.
#
And the rest of the fields were ruined.
#
So the Gujarat government thought that their fields are good. And all this got burnt. How did this happen?
#
Their production came to an average of 12-15 quintals. Big trees were seen.
#
The ones who planted B.T. cotton.
#
The ones who planted B.T. cotton. It was a miracle.
#
And it was not allowed?
#
It was banned. They banned the technology. They are doing research in the university.
#
They don't know what the future of the children is.
#
But they banned the technology. They banned it for the farmers.
#
Whereas in insulin, genetic modification works. But it doesn't work in Kapas.
#
This is the government's strategy. This is how it works.
#
Then we stole the seeds and used it in Maharashtra.
#
So much so that the government thought that it was better to allow it.
#
The government allowed it.
#
In 2002, B.T. cotton was allowed for the first time.
#
The first seed of Mahiko Mancento was allowed.
#
Because of that, India was at the fourth position in the production of Kapas.
#
The first was America. The second was China. The third was Pakistan. The fourth was India.
#
So the miracle of B.T. cotton happened.
#
We stole it and brought it back.
#
We protested for it. We went to Gujarat with Mr. Sharad Joshi.
#
The Gujarat government tried to pull out all the plants.
#
From here, we took 3-4,000 farmers.
#
In Gujarat, everything else failed.
#
Only B.T. cotton was allowed.
#
The Gujarat government wanted to destroy this too.
#
Yes, it was destroying this too.
#
Then we went to Maharashtra with Mr. Sharad Joshi.
#
So why did you go there?
#
All the farmers did this.
#
We thought that the technology was being used by the farmers.
#
And the government was against it.
#
We stood behind the farmers of Gujarat.
#
We don't believe in boundaries.
#
So how many farmers did you go to Maharashtra?
#
We went to Gujarat with 5-10,000 farmers.
#
In Bharuch, we met Gujarati farmers.
#
We said that we won't let them plant any trees.
#
If something happens, we will attack.
#
The government got scared.
#
They didn't do anything.
#
The government of Vajpayee was there at that time.
#
The government of Vajpayee thought that this is increasing.
#
They started planting from there.
#
We also started planting from here.
#
The farmers of Maharashtra also started planting.
#
It is better to allow this.
#
The government of Vajpayee allowed this in 2002.
#
The government of Vajpayee did one thing at that time.
#
Under the restrictions under the Essential Community Act,
#
they opened 713 things.
#
Then we supported India.
#
It's not that we don't believe in politics.
#
But if they are doing good work, we used to support them.
#
The government of Vajpayee did this.
#
The people who were in Sudeshi,
#
who used to talk about Sudeshi,
#
they were bringing the liberal agenda forward.
#
They were bringing the open system forward.
#
That's why we supported India at that time.
#
I think the most interesting and tragic thing in this BT cotton is
#
that if some enterprising farmers of Gujarat
#
don't bring the BT cotton secretly,
#
then this never happens.
#
And only because of the government intervention,
#
this much benefit has been done for the farmers.
#
Apple makes a new mobile in America.
#
So it can be found in India on the second day or on the fourth day.
#
But in America, in developed countries,
#
in countries like the Philippines,
#
there has been a revolution in biotechnology.
#
Like I saw golden rice in the Philippines.
#
What does golden rice mean?
#
Rice has only carbohydrates.
#
So it doesn't have much vitamins.
#
But biotechnology has made golden rice.
#
It has two vitamins and two minerals.
#
If children eat that rice,
#
then there is blindness.
#
at least 2 lakh children are born blind
#
If that rice is fed to their mother and children,
#
then that problem can be very less.
#
which lives in carrots,
#
that character has been put in it.
#
If such a technology comes,
#
then there is a big revolution in agriculture.
#
There has been a lot of revolution in soybean.
#
It has been in mustard.
#
There has been a genetic modification in biotechnology.
#
There are 23 countries in the world
#
where there are many countries like America.
#
There are many countries in Europe.
#
There are very few people in Europe.
#
Because there is only agriculture for 6 months.
#
But a country like America is using it.
#
The oil called canola comes from mustard.
#
Genetically modified mustard comes from canola.
#
Because the oilseeds here were not appreciated.
#
The entire industry of oilseeds in India has been ruined.
#
Government intervention,
#
government restrictions,
#
different restrictions have been put in place to stop it.
#
It has happened that we have to import from outside.
#
70% oil comes from outside.
#
The soybean industry here is sick.
#
Because the oil is coming from outside.
#
The genetic modified oil is coming.
#
But it is banned to produce the farmer.
#
If a new phone comes in America,
#
then it is available in a day.
#
But if something new comes in agriculture in America,
#
then we do not get it for 10 years.
#
I am comparing the farmer with myself.
#
But I can buy the laptop I want to buy.
#
The government does not tell me not to buy a laptop.
#
The government does not tell me that for research,
#
you are not allowed internet or ASP.
#
And when I write, the government does not tell me
#
that you sell us first, we will see ahead.
#
So I have complete freedom.
#
And whoever is listening to my podcast,
#
they should also think about their profession.
#
How much freedom do they have?
#
They do not have such restrictions.
#
But there are restrictions on our farmers in every way.
#
Yes, technology has come.
#
Liberalization has happened in 1993.
#
But not in agriculture.
#
Everything has happened except us.
#
Computer has come, media has come,
#
telephones have come, mobile has come.
#
The whole revolution of technology has happened.
#
But it has happened in India.
#
It has not happened in India.
#
India-India, as Sharad Joshi said.
#
And Sharad Joshi came to India from India to understand it.
#
And before him, like his perspective,
#
this market perspective or government intervention perspective,
#
before him, any farmer leader did not do this.
#
Now, whoever is a farmer leader,
#
or whoever was there before in India,
#
these people were like union leaders.
#
They were not educated.
#
They did not do any experiments.
#
They were the land of their forefathers.
#
They were union leaders.
#
Some were made by Jats, some by unions,
#
When Sharad Joshi became a farmer,
#
he became a farmer on purpose.
#
When Sharad Joshi became a farmer
#
and brought all these thoughts to his farmers,
#
Because all these thoughts were new to him.
#
Yes, when we first heard about Sharad Joshi,
#
we were not attracted to him
#
because Sharad Joshi is from IS and Switzerland.
#
Sharad Joshi was talking about us,
#
talking about our hearts,
#
talking about our experiences.
#
And slowly we started listening to him.
#
And we started talking about each and every thing.
#
Earlier, the government was my father.
#
We did not call our father father,
#
but we used to call the government father.
#
Like we used to call Narewaji uncle.
#
But we felt that there is no god
#
greater than our mother.
#
There is no god greater than our father.
#
For the first time, Sharad Joshi explained to us
#
that your father is very great.
#
He does 100 grains of rice,
#
but why does he remain a beggar?
#
We became revolutionary.
#
Then we started to agitate.
#
That we produce so much,
#
we work so hard in agriculture,
#
we do not get anything.
#
If someone becomes a chaprasi,
#
If someone becomes a lecturer,
#
then he earns 1.5 lakh rupees a month.
#
Our father has been working for centuries,
#
so we are not getting anything.
#
That is why we revolted.
#
We did not get any attraction.
#
Sharad Joshi put a vision in front of us.
#
He put a science in front of us.
#
For which we are ready to fight.
#
Mahatma Gandhi spoke about freedom.
#
He spoke about the freedom of farmers
#
in a very different way.
#
which is called Akadewari,
#
he put it in front of us
#
in a very numerical way.
#
This is Jayadrath, this is Surya.
#
That is why the most ordinary farmer of the village
#
understood Sharad Joshi.
#
When Sharad Joshi's assembly was going on,
#
when there was a pin drop of 1-2 lakhs,
#
He took two women for adoration.
#
There were 4.5 lakh women
#
This is a world record.
#
Such a big adoration of unorganized women
#
No one has broken that record yet.
#
This is a different kind of...
#
When the Shikari Sangatna started,
#
there was a mass movement
#
Can you tell us some history
#
When the Shikari Sangatna started
#
and when the movement started,
#
there was a farmer's problem
#
and the government looted the farmer.
#
to understand the reality of this,
#
the reality came from WTO
#
there was such a big movement
#
panth pradhan in the future
#
on our stage, Chandrasekhar,
#
There was Chandrasekhar,
#
I have a photo of four of them.
#
So, all these panth pradhan
#
that were going to happen,
#
Sharad Joshi also said,
#
actually, later in the myth,
#
the media turned it upside down.
#
have come to our stage,
#
then we don't need to protest
#
and we don't need to do politics.
#
have kept their political shoes
#
then we will support them.
#
We will not come into politics.
#
So, the media removed everything.
#
If they come into politics,
#
Sharad Joshi didn't say that.
#
if you are doing this much for farmers,
#
then we don't need to come.
#
But, you remove your shoes.
#
If you meet with farmers,
#
then we will not come into politics.
#
the solution to everything is politics.
#
Whatever decisions are made,
#
they are made by politics.
#
Then, the era of liberalization started.
#
Even then, we are not becoming liberal.
#
In 1993, GATT was signed.
#
But, we were not liberated.
#
made the independent party
#
And, for liberalization,
#
he established the independent India in 1995.
#
And, we fought in elections at that time.
#
the independent party was to be registered,
#
were to be taken as a pledge.
#
I don't believe in socialism.
#
Indira Gandhi had put it in the 42nd amendment
#
Sharad Joshi said, I am not a socialist
#
and I oppose socialism.
#
India is ruined by socialism.
#
Manvendra Kachole was made the president
#
and the independent party was registered.
#
that if I don't do it, I don't do it.
#
Whatever I say, I do it.
#
In 1995, we fought in elections.
#
Then, two or three people were elected.
#
First, five people were elected.
#
But, we didn't get as much success
#
politics was attracted.
#
When we stood in front of them
#
If so few people were elected,
#
they couldn't change the policy.
#
Even if one or two people were elected,
#
they tried to make many changes.
#
For example, Vaman Rao Chattop was elected.
#
He was elected in the Vidhan Sabha.
#
If our workers were elected,
#
what would be their performance?
#
A farmer took Rs. 90,000.
#
He returned Rs. 2,50,000.
#
We said that the price was double.
#
you won't get any interest.
#
That was the rule of the Bhuvikas Bank.
#
I protested in the court.
#
I was undergound for a month.
#
But I protested on 23rd March 2005.
#
I protested on 23rd March 2005.
#
Vaman Rao Chattop was in the Vidhan Sabha.
#
he raised the same issue
#
that how did Rs. 18,50,000
#
that the price was double.
#
It could be Rs. 100 to 200.
#
It can't be Rs. 100 to Rs. 18,000.
#
It can't be Rs. 18,000.
#
by Rs. 450 crores of Bhuvikas Bank.
#
By changing the law one by one,
#
many such changes took place.
#
Because of Sheryl Joshi,
#
our workers came into politics
#
and showed their performance.
#
But in order to change the strategy,
#
our members went to Lok Sabha
#
because all the laws of politics
#
10 people go to Lok Sabha,
#
the law will not change.
#
The schedule 9 will not change.
#
The essential commodity act,
#
all these laws were against farmers.
#
You have already explained
#
due to the lack of markets.
#
What other interventions
#
Sheryl Joshi used to fight
#
that this should not happen?
#
There were laws on land.
#
There are still laws on land.
#
There are three laws on land.
#
There is a ceiling law.
#
You can't keep more than 54 acres of land.
#
You can't keep more than 54 acres of land.
#
If you don't get water,
#
you can't keep more than
#
You can't keep more than
#
You can't keep more than
#
What is the effect of this law?
#
Indira Gandhi introduced
#
and the land was fragmented.
#
The land was fragmented
#
against the land owner.
#
against the land owner.
#
So it is not sustainable.
#
that you can't be landless.
#
We thought that the farmers
#
They will sell five acres
#
We can't sell all the land.
#
We can sell one or two acres
#
but we can't be landless.
#
This is the second law.
#
Amitabh Bachchan thought
#
we will get crores of rupees.
#
What will we do with the money?
#
We will farm and buy land.
#
He thought that he will be a farmer.
#
that he will also be a farmer.
#
You can't sell agricultural land
#
for non-agricultural purposes.
#
if there is no farmer in your family.
#
Try to understand this.
#
and he thinks that he will be a farmer
#
then he can't be a farmer in this country.
#
And the farmer can't leave.
#
The farmer can't leave.
#
It's the government's law.
#
Will he be able to build a century?
#
No. Will he be able to break records?
#
The farmer has such a law
#
that you can't go above 54 acres.
#
For example, if a merchant
#
is told that he has built one factory
#
and the other one is sealed.
#
If the law is imposed on Ambani
#
then he will go back to Gujarat.
#
The farmer has this law
#
but the industry doesn't have it.
#
The players don't have it.
#
The doctors don't have it.
#
Why does the farmer have it?
#
Sharad Joshi has strongly opposed this law.
#
The second is the Essential Commodity Act.
#
There are five essential commodities.
#
The Essential Commodity Act means
#
that is produced by agriculture
#
is in the Essential Commodity Act.
#
It is a very important thing.
#
The government has the right
#
The government has the right to market it.
#
like Eurokinesis and Teptokinesis.
#
They are life-saving drugs.
#
Why don't they have it?
#
Put it in the Essential Commodity Act.
#
Put all the medicines in the Essential Commodity Act.
#
Because you know that the supply will stop.
#
Onions are not an essential commodity.
#
It has never happened that
#
if the person eats more sugar,
#
It is also an essential commodity.
#
of the Essential Commodity Act
#
they have no right to market it.
#
They have the right to control it.
#
The PDS has come under the same Act.
#
the prices have been reduced.
#
They are selling rice for 2 rupees.
#
They are selling wheat for 2 rupees.
#
They are father's goods.
#
We have prepared it for 15 rupees.
#
You have sold it for 2 rupees.
#
You are distributing grains in Thukat.
#
You are becoming a dharmadatta.
#
You are becoming a messiah.
#
labour has stopped coming to us.
#
If you get 30 kilos of grains for 60 rupees,
#
then no work will come.
#
You have made the workers
#
After getting it at a low price,
#
the price of the rice plate here is also low.
#
for less than 3.5 thousand rupees.
#
You can go to America, Europe,
#
no matter how much you eat rice,
#
why have you made our goods
#
You have reduced the prices
#
so much that the grains in India
#
are so cheap that they are nowhere in the world.
#
If the farmers of India
#
they would have sold grains,
#
The world's kitchen would have been made in India.
#
they would have exported chapatis,
#
vegetables and everything else.
#
the world's chocolate and butter market was made.
#
the wine market was made.
#
Why didn't India make it?
#
Why didn't India make kitchens?
#
We had wine, butter and food.
#
The world's kitchen was made in India.
#
with the most agriculture.
#
There is nothing about agriculture.
#
a computer that is not our technology.
#
We are making a computer that is not our technology.
#
Take the pattern of America
#
Will we be able to compete with them in that?
#
and took what was the other's.
#
but the Shetkari organization is also very strong.
#
I met a lot of your leaders in the last two days.
#
from other leaders and parties.
#
How much support do you have in farmers?
#
Farmers have a lot of support.
#
What are the problems of farmers?
#
Look, don't get our results from elections.
#
Because electoral politics
#
Election is a technique.
#
That technique is never with us.
#
There were a lot of PhDs.
#
There was a professor named Mike from America.
#
and he also gave me a book.
#
There have been a lot of revolutions.
#
in every party's agenda,
#
and that is because of Mr. Joshi.
#
and does not have any cognizance.
#
Every party talks about farmers.
#
they only do farm loan waivers
#
But the structural changes
#
that you are talking about,
#
that Mr. Joshi has written in detail,
#
they don't do anything about that.
#
Mr. Joshi has written twice
#
There is no agriculture policy in this country.
#
Mr. Joshi wrote the first agriculture policy
#
in the time of V.P. Singh.
#
The second agriculture policy,
#
which was the chairman of the agriculture task force
#
in the time of Vajpayeeji.
#
he wrote a 56 page agriculture policy.
#
But nothing happened about it.
#
They didn't implement it.
#
Like V.P. Singh thought
#
that by increasing the agriculture policy,
#
they have come to an agreement.
#
They came to an agreement,
#
Mr. Vajpayeeji left this and
#
started using the slogans of Sohdeshi.
#
There was a loss of farmers.
#
Mr. Joshi tried to make a agriculture policy,
#
a draft of agriculture.
#
And he gave it to the government.
#
If they had implemented it,
#
then China would not have been
#
a leftist country like mine.
#
But China made a revolution.
#
Even if it was on the gun barrel.
#
But India was a liberal country
#
The culture was liberal.
#
But we couldn't become liberal.
#
We couldn't go into the world competition.
#
Why? Because of the government policy.
#
Sharad Joshi worked a lot and protested a lot.
#
There were some changes,
#
but most of the reforms he wanted
#
Why didn't the first question happen?
#
And the second question, do you have hope
#
that this will happen in the future?
#
Absolutely. We have hope.
#
after the Second World War,
#
a Marshall Plan was put in place
#
and Germany was taken over.
#
There was injustice against Germany
#
and Germany was financed
#
to save Germany from the Second World War.
#
And his economic policies were also liberal.
#
Classically liberal, free market policies.
#
Similarly, here in India,
#
we say that Sharad Joshi's Marshall Plan,
#
so they use the word Marshall
#
because it is related to the Second World War.
#
Sharad Joshi's Marshall Plan,
#
the agriculture here has cancer.
#
The farmers here have cancer.
#
It is such a serious matter.
#
If we have to take it up,
#
then we will have to do an operation,
#
we will have to give chemotherapy,
#
we will have to do radiation,
#
like we do cancer patients,
#
you will have to do the agriculture here.
#
How will you have to do it?
#
You will have to do it in three steps.
#
Whenever I used to say,
#
like if you read the history of Baliraja,
#
into the abyss in three steps.
#
So, from Sharad Joshi's plan,
#
Baliraja can be taken up
#
First, write off the loan
#
that has been made on him.
#
That will not solve the problem.
#
Step number two, open the technology
#
and the infrastructure.
#
because in 2008 Sharad Joshi said
#
under the sky is now difficult
#
for the changes that are going to happen.
#
For that, control farming has to be done.
#
Hydroponic, aerophonic,
#
we have a very big view on that.
#
And let the farmers make all these decisions
#
and not let the government interfere.
#
Absolutely. Let FDI come.
#
But 500 crores should be
#
decided by the farmers.
#
Because it is their life.
#
Second, let the technology come,
#
let the infrastructure improve.
#
monkey grass is not connected.
#
Sri Lanka is ahead of us.
#
I am not comparing it to America.
#
Sri Lanka is ahead of us.
#
So, first, the infrastructure
#
should be used to import and export our goods.
#
the technology is here, the crops are good.
#
But we need a good market for that.
#
We need a free market for that.
#
we need new facilities.
#
Third, if there are three,
#
the cancer will be reduced,
#
the disease will be reduced
#
and there will be a big revolution
#
If you bring a revolution to agriculture,
#
then we can compete like China.
#
Because it has its own strength,
#
making in India, made in India,
#
all this will be useless.
#
Mr. Gunvan, we end this episode
#
on the note of this hope.
#
Thank you very much for coming
#
If you liked this episode,
#
then you can listen to the previous episode
#
of Scene Unseen in English
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and you can follow me on Twitter
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at my account amitvarma.
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Hi, my name is Anupam Gupta.
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I am the host of Pesa Pesa,
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the show that talks money.
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On my show, I speak to experts
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from every field of money and finance.
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credit cards, life insurance,
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of money and finance that you can think of.
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We even did an episode on cryptocurrency.
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I've got fantastic guests
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from mutual funds to personal finance.
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robo-advary, start-up, just name it, we've got it.
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At Pesa Pesa, we help you make
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smart decisions about money.
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You work hard for money,
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now make your money work hard for you.
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New episodes out every Monday
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and you can listen to my show
